Junshi Finance mainly focuses on fields such as logic circuits, software, online advertising, essential/optional consumption, etc., updating valuable information related to fundamentals daily.
Expert Interview: Google TPU v7/v8 PCB and optical module solutions, Rubin’s HDI board solutions and demand scenarios, copper-clad laminate supplyThis summary is sourced from the internet. If the organization to which the summary belongs finds it inconvenient to disseminate, please leave a message in the background to delete the summary! We apologize for any inconvenience caused!Expert Opinion:Does Google’s V7 and V8 hardware solution include two types of models?Google’s V7 and V8 hardware solutions indeed include two types of models: one is the traditional single-card mode, and the other is the cluster mode. In single-card mode, each board is equipped with 8 CPUs, without using accelerator cards, but directly loading chips. As for the cluster mode, there are already designs with 16 cards or even higher density. For example, a board can accommodate 16 chips, with each PCB board containing 4 GPU or TPU modules connected via optical modules. A complete cluster may consist of 64 such boards.How is the optical module configuration on the PCB boards in the V7 and V8 hardware solutions? What is the specific quantity?In Google’s V7 hardware solution, each PCB board typically configures 18 optical modules. These optical modules support high-speed data transmission, and each PCB board also contains 4 GPU or TPU modules. The entire system design aims for high density, forming complete computing nodes through multiple such PCB boards.What is the grade of the copper-clad laminate material used in the V7 and V8 hardware solutions? Does it need to reach the M9 level?Currently, Google’s V7 hardware solution mainly uses M8 copper-clad laminate material, but it may upgrade to M9 level in the future. Due to the high number of layers in these circuit boards (usually between 30-32 layers), the performance requirements for materials are high. Currently, the number of companies in mainland China capable of producing such high-layer circuit boards is limited, with a few manufacturers like Huadian Co. and Nanbian Microelectronics having the relevant capabilities.Does the V7 hardware solution need to adopt HDI technology? How does its transmission speed compare to NVIDIA?Currently, Google’s V7 hardware solution has not widely adopted HDI technology, with a transmission speed of 224Gbps, which is slightly lower than NVIDIA’s products. Additionally, unlike NVIDIA’s reliance on accelerator cards, Google mainly connects chips directly to PCB substrates to achieve functionality. This design simplifies the manufacturing process but may limit performance improvements in certain scenarios.Will the heat dissipation issues of high-layer PCBs (such as 40 layers and above) become a bottleneck for future development? Can manufacturers in mainland China currently produce circuit boards with more than 40 layers?High-layer PCBs themselves do not cause heat dissipation issues due to increased thickness. Currently, manufacturers in mainland China are capable of producing circuit boards with 40 or even 50-60 layers, such as TTM and Huadian Co. However, high-layer designs may impose higher heat dissipation requirements, which mainly depend on the heat dissipation needs of the chip area rather than solely on PCB thickness.How does the pin spacing of PCBs affect the application of HDI technology? Under what circumstances must HDI technology be adopted?The smaller the PCB pin spacing, the higher the wiring density requirements. When the pin spacing reaches its limit and traditional high-layer designs cannot meet wiring needs, HDI technology must be adopted. For example, in NVIDIA products, the BGA package pin spacing is 0.65mm, while Google’s product is 0.92mm, making the former more inclined to use HDI technology. In cases with larger pin spacing, wiring issues can be resolved by increasing the number of PCB layers without the need to switch to HDI design.In terms of wiring layers and design complexity, what are the differences in PCB designs among different manufacturers? For example, what are the differences in wiring density, layers, and application scenarios between HDI boards and ordinary high-layer thick boards?HDI (High-Density Interconnect) boards have higher wiring density, typically used for chip designs requiring fine pin spacing, such as NVIDIA’s special solutions, which demand higher performance from HDI boards. HDI boards achieve high-speed signal transmission through laser drilling technology, supporting 12D or higher multi-layer blind buried hole structures. In contrast, ordinary high-layer thick boards are mainly used for larger chip designs, which have lower requirements for lead fineness, thus not necessitating the expensive HDI process, instead focusing on 30 to 40 layers, increasing power layers and signal isolation to meet demands. This design is suitable for applications with high cost control requirements but relatively moderate performance needs.What strategies has NVIDIA adopted in the PCB supply chain? How is its cooperation model with Taiwanese supply chains and mainland manufacturers?NVIDIA has adopted a binding strategy in the PCB supply chain, forming a close cooperative relationship with Taiwanese supply chains. For example, when procuring pressing equipment, it prioritizes Taiwanese manufacturers. A single pressing production line costs about 20 million RMB, while 10 production lines total about 200 million RMB. Additionally, mainland manufacturers mainly handle the production and processing of PCBs to achieve cost optimization. Through this model, NVIDIA maintains core technology and key equipment provided by Taiwanese supply chains while outsourcing some manufacturing processes to mainland manufacturers, thereby reducing overall costs.What are the price differences of PCB products produced by different manufacturers? What are the main factors affecting price differences?PCB product prices vary significantly due to differences in materials, process complexity, and layer counts. For example, a square meter of PCB using HDI technology from NVIDIA costs about 33,000 to 40,000 RMB, while a square meter of Google’s V7 high-layer design costs about 25,000 to 26,000 RMB. If M9 materials are used, the cost per square meter will be higher; if M8 materials are used, the cost per square meter is controlled around 25,000 RMB. Additionally, Shenghong’s PCB, priced at nearly 40,000 RMB per square meter, is over 10,000 RMB more expensive than Google’s V7 solution. Overall, the main factors affecting price differences include material grade, process complexity, and wiring layer counts.What are the core suppliers in the copper-clad laminate (CCL) and PCB fields for Google? How is the market share distributed?Google’s core suppliers in the copper-clad laminate and PCB fields include Taiwan’s Jinxiang Electric, TTM, and Huadian Technology, which dominate the market. Additionally, there are other participants such as South Korea’s ISU and mainland China’s Shennan Circuit. It is expected that by 2026, Google may add mainland manufacturers such as Fangzheng Technology, Shiying Electronics, and Zunyi as potential suppliers. This year (2025), Google’s related business scale is about 800 million RMB, accounting for a relatively limited global market share; by next year (2026), this scale may grow to 1.8 billion RMB, increasing its share to about 20%, from the current 5% to 20% in the global market.If Google pushes for large-scale production of high-layer PCBs (30 to 40 layers) in 2026, can the current domestic PCB supply chain meet this demand? How is the capacity and technical capability of major domestic manufacturers distributed?Currently, Huadian Co. and Shennan Circuit are the main high-end manufacturing enterprises in the domestic PCB supply chain. Huadian Co. holds a significant market share in the internet interconnection field, while Shennan Circuit has passed relevant tests and possesses certain capabilities. Additionally, Shenghong Technology has received orders from Google and Meta, but its previous focus on HDI (High-Density Interconnect boards) has not yet formed specialized capabilities in the 30 to 40-layer high-end PCB field, thus facing significant challenges. Manufacturers in Taiwan mainly focus on high-end products, but their capacity is limited; for example, a certain factory has only 30,000 square meters of monthly capacity.In mainland China, a certain factory in Suzhou focuses on producing low-end boards below 18 layers, while companies like Jinxiang Electric are expanding slowly, and TTM has almost no new capacity. Therefore, after Google’s volume increase in 2026, the demand for high-end PCBs is expected to rely mainly on domestic enterprises. However, due to fierce competition for talent in the industry and confidentiality agreements, companies like Shenghong may encounter difficulties in technological upgrades and talent acquisition.What is the growth trend of global PCB market demand in 2026? What specific application scenarios will drive this growth?The global PCB market is expected to see significant growth in 2026, with AI servers, distributed servers, and GPU accelerator cards being the main driving forces. For example, ZTE and Huawei are accelerating their layout in the AI server and distributed server fields, which significantly increases the demand for high-end multi-layer boards (such as those with more than 20 layers). Additionally, overseas tech giants like Google and Amazon plan to expand their procurement of high-end PCBs.From a specific application perspective, the v6 and v7 version multi-layer boards required for high-performance computing devices will become mainstream in 2026, while the current market is still dominated by v5 versions. As technology upgrades, these new version products will require higher manufacturing processes and offer more attractive profit margins. Therefore, companies like Chongda and Bomin Electronics plan to enter this field to secure more orders.What is the current situation of Shennan Circuit’s recent expansion of HDI business? Will its future development direction focus on specific application areas?Shennan Circuit has expanded its HDI business at its Nantong No. 10 factory, which is positioned to produce high-end HDI products and has SLP (substrate-like PCB) manufacturing capabilities, similar to Beijing Yili and Pengding Holdings. Its target applications include optical modules, GPU accelerator cards, and automotive electronic inner substrates. Among them, in the automotive electronics field, its third-phase factory has already begun producing related HDI products.Additionally, the company plans to develop 7 to 10-layer multi-layer boards suitable for future advanced computing devices (such as NVIDIA CPU/GPU cards) and glass substrate products. This indicates that Shennan Circuit is gradually expanding into more complex and higher value-added niche markets to respond to future market demand changes.What is the impact of Shenghong Technology’s close relationship with the Taiwanese supply chain? Will this cooperation model affect its future competitiveness in the global market?Shenghong Technology maintains a close cooperation with the Taiwanese supply chain, sourcing its equipment and some key materials from Taiwan. For example, it acquired the Thai Jintai factory through its Taiwanese connections and completed the transaction at a mid-low price. This cooperation model allows Shenghong to obtain stable and price-advantageous resource support, thereby enhancing its competitiveness. Additionally, the company’s management team maintains good interaction with the Taiwanese industry, such as participating in local gatherings and industry events, further solidifying the relationship.However, this model may also bring certain limitations, such as over-reliance on a single regional resource or technology source. In a global competitive environment, if other regional supply chains achieve breakthrough cost advantages, it may pose challenges to Shenghong. Therefore, it needs to balance regional cooperation with global layout to ensure long-term competitiveness.What are the significant changes in M9 level copper-clad laminates compared to M8 level? How is the price trend, and do domestic material companies have opportunities to participate?M9 level copper-clad laminates have a more complex resin ratio structure compared to M8 level, currently using a hydrocarbon and PPO mixed resin, with a higher proportion of PPO. It is understood that the ratio is approximately 3:5:6.5. This upgrade gives M9 level copper-clad laminates superior performance but also significantly increases costs. Currently, the ordinary version of M8 copper-clad laminate is priced at about 900 RMB per sheet, while M9 is expected to be priced between 1,200 and 1,500 RMB per sheet, effectively doubling the price. Additionally, when used for smart versions or other high-end applications, the price per square meter may reach 30,000 to 35,000 RMB, significantly higher than the current level of 20,000 to 24,000 RMB.For domestic material companies, such as Dynamic Technology, if they can break through the core resin formula and achieve mass production, they will have the opportunity to enter this rapidly growing emerging market. However, due to the strong confidentiality of formulas and high technical barriers, currently only a few companies meet the participation conditions.What are the main challenges faced by small molecular weight premium materials in production? Additionally, how does the choice of glass cloth affect production?Small molecular weight premium materials face significant difficulties in production, particularly in terms of raw materials and processes. The glass cloth must be made from high-purity silica quartz sand, with commonly used specifications being 1,035 and 1,078, with 1,078 being more common. This high-purity quartz sand accounts for 40% of the total cost and is one of the key cost factors. Additionally, in the bonding of copper foil and resin, HVLP5 grade copper foil is typically required, rather than HVLP4 or lower grades, which imposes high process requirements. Especially in mainland China, HVLP5 is considered an advanced standard, while only some projects in Taiwan use HVLP4.Why is H6H6P5 required for M9 level products instead of other specifications? What are the differences in technical standards between mainland China and Taiwan?M9 level products require the use of H6H6P5 specifications because its performance meets the needs for higher strength and stability, while using H4 or other lower specifications cannot achieve the same effect. In terms of technical standards, mainland China has a higher acceptance of advanced technologies, such as upgrading GB200 and GB300 from the past HVLP3 to HVLP4 or even higher levels. In contrast, Taiwan is relatively conservative, still primarily using HVLP4, but may gradually transition to HVLP5 in the future.What is the role of vacuum coating technology in copper foil manufacturing? What is the current development status of domestic and foreign enterprises in this field?Vacuum coating is an important process used to manufacture high-performance copper foil, achieving more uniform and finer surface treatment effects compared to traditional pressing methods. Currently, domestic companies like Longxiang Electronics have some R&D capabilities but limited production capacity and market share; the international market is dominated by large companies like Mitsui, which occupy over 90% of the market share. Additionally, there are some trade activities in places like Luxembourg, but the overall scale is small.What are the main application scenarios for high-end HDI boards currently? Will companies like Microsoft and Meta adopt such boards for design and development?High-end HDI boards are currently mainly applied in specific fields, such as NVIDIA’s advanced HDI designs. However, Microsoft and Meta have not widely adopted such boards; they prefer alternatives with high coating characteristics. In the Chinese market, Huawei is attempting to use HDI in accelerator card designs, but overall, high-end HDI boards have not yet become mainstream choices.As SSX further upgrades, how is the trend of PCB board thickness changing? What are the key challenges and equipment requirements for thick board production?As SSX upgrades, PCB board thickness shows a significant increasing trend, currently reaching 4mm, 5mm, or even 6mm. Thick board production faces two key challenges: one is the shortage of plating level line equipment; the other is the increased difficulty of drilling processing. For example, the standard thickness for AT test boards is 6.35mm, and this trend is gradually influencing the development direction of the domestic PCB industry. Currently, several listed companies, including Chongda, Kexiang, Jinlu, and Yibo Technology, are laying out related plating line and level line equipment to meet the new requirements brought by 224G server high-speed transmission and AC chip integration.Regarding the current issues in the PCB industry related to plating level lines, is it due to insufficient equipment or process time limitations that restrict capacity?Currently, the issues with plating level lines involve both insufficient equipment and process time limitations. Even with sufficient equipment, the longer time required for thick board processing to complete the plating process still limits capacity. This situation is particularly evident in high-speed transmission PCBs required for 224G server configurations and products related to ASIC chip integration, posing new technical and efficiency requirements for the industry.What are the main technical bottlenecks faced by domestic high-end circuit board manufacturing? Which specific companies and equipment are involved?The main technical bottlenecks in domestic high-end circuit board manufacturing currently focus on the processing of thick boards (such as 5mm, 6mm) and the R&D of level line equipment. Existing equipment tends to encounter board jamming issues when processing thicknesses exceeding 5mm, leading to production disruptions. Zhongwei Company is currently focused on vertical continuous VCP electric lines and has not ventured into horizontal electric lines, while horizontal electric lines are a key direction for current industry development. Among domestic companies, Baode Electronics, Shennan Circuit, Zhejiang Electric Co., and TTM all use Baode’s gantry line equipment, but Baode Electronics itself has limited production capacity. Additionally, Wuxi Pioneer and Changfeng Electronics are also attempting to develop horizontal line equipment capable of supporting 6mm thickness, but they still face technical challenges. Overall, the equipment installation and debugging cycle is long (about half a year), and the difficulty of technological breakthroughs is high, which collectively limits the industry’s capacity enhancement.Has Baode Electronics achieved breakthroughs in the R&D of related equipment? If so, what challenges does it face?Baode Electronics has successfully developed some related equipment, but its horizontal line still relies on its parent company for support, and the thick board processing issues have not been fully resolved. Although Baode has certain capabilities, its production capacity is limited, and the overall industry chain still requires time to achieve large-scale expansion. For example, the processing adaptability for 4mm, 5mm, and 6mm thick boards is still insufficient. Additionally, the etching machine, as one of the core links, also faces issues with insufficient load capacity. These factors make it difficult for the entire industry chain to quickly boost capacity growth in the short term.In the AT test board field, how are the development situations of domestic and foreign companies?AT test boards have a high technical threshold, with thickness requirements reaching 6.35mm. Currently, very few companies in China can produce AT test boards, including only a few like Huadian Co., while overseas companies such as Hubble and Newborn Technology have the corresponding capabilities. This indicates that this field is still in its infancy in China, with a significant gap compared to internationally leading manufacturers.What key points should be noted regarding the new solutions and related HDI products that may be launched next year (2026)?The Rubin solution plans to launch 7-layer HDI products, which will further increase manufacturing difficulty and impose higher requirements on materials. For example, this solution will use M9 materials, which cost significantly more than traditional materials. Currently, the unit price of M9 materials is 850 RMB per sheet, while the future expected price may reach 1,200-1,500 RMB per sheet, effectively doubling the cost. Additionally, calculated on a per square meter basis, the cost of over 40,000 RMB per square meter is expected to rise to 60,000-70,000 RMB per square meter by 2026. This price change will have a significant impact on industry profit margins and market competition patterns.What are the specific predictions or data supporting the development trends and challenges of high-end HDI products in the future?The development trend of high-end HDI products (such as 7-layer HDI) indicates that their manufacturing difficulty and costs will continue to rise. For example, the new generation of products represented by the Rubin solution not only requires more advanced processes but also needs to use more expensive new materials, such as M9 materials. Additionally, it is predicted that by 2026, the price of high-end HDI products per square meter may rise from the current approximately 40,000 RMB to 60,000-70,000 RMB, indicating an increase of at least 1.5 times. This trend reflects the industry’s increasing demand for new technologies and materials, while also indicating that market competition will become more intense.Regarding the application situation of M9 materials, are there any issues in processing verification and actual use? Is there a possibility of returning to M8 materials due to processing difficulties?The processing parameters of M9 materials have currently been verified, showing relatively successful results, especially in the application on the backplane, which has been recognized. However, due to the high processing difficulty of M9 materials, the wear on drill bits during the drilling process has significantly increased. For example, compared to traditional materials, the lifespan of drill bits has decreased from 3,000 uses to about 200 uses, leading to a substantial increase in demand for drill bits. Additionally, M9 materials, due to their quartz filling characteristics, cause severe wear on equipment, necessitating the use of high-end technologies such as diamond coating to reduce wear. Nevertheless, there have been no cases of reverting to M8 materials due to processing issues.What is the market demand and supply situation for high-end PCB materials (such as M8 and M9)? Will this lead to supply tightness or price increases?High-end PCB materials such as M7, M8, and M9 contain a large amount of filler, causing significant wear on production equipment, thus significantly increasing the demand for key consumables like drill bits. For example, if M8 and M9 are promoted simultaneously in 2026, the demand for drill bits is expected to reach ten times the current level. Since domestic high-end drill bits still rely on imports, and core raw materials like tungsten steel are mainly supplied by Japan, any increase in overseas prices will directly drive up domestic costs. Additionally, the speed of expansion among domestic enterprises in this field is relatively slow, with only a few companies (like Jinzhu and Dingtai) having the capacity for large-scale production, so the market is expected to face further tightening in supply in 2026.What is the role of drill bits and related consumables in high-end PCB manufacturing? What is the current supply situation domestically and internationally?In high-end PCB manufacturing, especially when using quartz-filled materials (such as M7 and M9), the performance requirements for drill bits are extremely stringent. Under traditional coating technology, each drill bit can complete 3,000-5,000 operations, while when processing quartz-filled boards, its lifespan is reduced to about 200 operations. In this case, advanced coating technologies such as diamond coating are required to extend the lifespan. However, currently, there is no domestic capability to produce drill bits that meet such high standards, and most still need to be imported from Japan, including tungsten steel raw materials and special alloys required for welding. Therefore, the prices of high-end consumables are significantly affected by fluctuations in the international market and may further increase in the future.What are the expansion plans and competitive landscape of domestic enterprises in the high-end PCB field?Among domestic enterprises, Jinzhu and Dingtai are competitive in the high-end PCB field. Jinzhu focuses on high-precision products, and its total output in 2025 has doubled, but it is still in a state of supply shortage. Dingtai, leveraging its large-scale warehousing capabilities in Guangdong, occupies an important position in the industry. Additionally, some small unlisted companies are also participating, but the overall expansion speed is relatively slow. Currently, domestic enterprises still face certain challenges in the global arena.
Note:The above content is sourced from the internet, and is for personal investment learning record purposes only.
The views expressed by experts in this report do not represent the views or opinions of Junshi Finance. Junshi Finance does not assume any responsibility for the accuracy, reliability, or completeness of the information, and is not liable for any direct or indirect losses or damages arising from the use of this information or any part thereof.
If any inconvenience is caused,please contact the background to delete it, contact information can be found in the menu of this public account.